Interview with psychologist: An expert explains why the personality disorder is difficult to expose

BRIGITTE: "He's a narcissist." A sentence, or rather a word, that seems to be used indiscriminately. How do you arrive at a diagnosis?

Turid Müller : I am not responsible for the diagnosis. I support people who ask themselves "Is my relationship narcissistic?" When I receive letters from people who ask "Am I narcissistic?" I send them to specialists in the therapeutic field. But that is rare because self-reflection is usually lacking. So people with narcissistic personality disorder rarely find themselves in a situation where a diagnosis could be made.

What makes it so difficult?

Firstly, narcissistic people are not aware of their toxic behaviour, they see no reason to change and shift responsibility. Secondly, there is not only grandiose and open narcissism, but also vulnerable and hidden narcissism. The latter forms are often not recognised or are misclassified. I therefore advise not to wait for a diagnosis if you are in a toxic relationship, but rather to ask yourself: "Am I happy in the relationship? Do we have beneficial dynamics?" If not, it might make sense to leave, even without a diagnosis.

Covert narcissists are friendly, reserved and well-liked

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You just talked about grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. Can you explain the difference again?

Narcissism is a contested field in science with many question marks. I follow Aaron Pincus' model, which assumes grandiose and vulnerable narcissism. We know grandiose narcissism as egocentrism, egotism, and a lack of empathy. Vulnerable narcissism does not seem narcissistic at first glance, but rather vulnerable, hiding one's own light under a bushel, with a note of depression, coming from the role of victim. Those affected often do not notice until late that there are narcissistic dynamics in their relationship. Both forms can occur openly or covertly.

Open and covert?

Open means observable. If someone dismisses and humiliates other people, it is observable. Covert narcissism is not visible at first glance, but can only be identified through deduction.

How does vulnerable narcissism manifest itself?

The victim mentality is typical. Taking on the role of victim, making you feel guilty so that you have to take care of the person. Responsibility is given away. You may worry that the other person will kill themselves if you don't do the right thing. Both sides of narcissism go hand in hand. An example would be the statement "If only someone had given me a chance, I would have shown everyone." This shows both victim mentality and grandiosity. The level of expression can fluctuate over the course of a person's life. A successful person might be on the grandiose side, someone who has had many setbacks on the vulnerable side.

What goes on in narcissistic people?

The behaviors are coping mechanisms that arise from the core emotion of shame and a feeling of worthlessness. All strategies try to avoid feeling this shame and to increase self-esteem from the outside. Narcissistic people do not necessarily consciously decide to act in this way.

You yourself were in a relationship with a narcissistic person. How and when did you notice that something was wrong?

Unfortunately, too late, like many people. Although I am a psychologist, I had only learned about grandiose narcissism at university. Narcissistic behavior creeps in, often only becoming apparent after months or years. The relationship usually starts off pleasantly, perhaps even with love bombing. The problematic behavior then slowly emerges, often so hidden that it does not stand out as emotionally abusive. You only notice that you are feeling worse, that your self-confidence is suffering. Empathic people then often doubt themselves first and look for ways to improve themselves.

How can you free yourself from such a relationship, especially when your self-esteem is already damaged?

There is no one way. It's about recognizing self-gaslighting or gaslighting from the outside and analyzing the relationship and your own behavior. Coaching helps many people to put their own story into context and understand what binds them. Often it is the cognitive dissonance between the idea of ​​a loving relationship and the opposite reality. You have to find out which thread binds you, be it feelings of guilt, hope for improvement or fear of being alone. When you recognize that, you can begin to slowly unravel that thread.

Are there ways for outsiders to help when a loved one is in a dysfunctional relationship?

This is not easy, especially if the person is not ready to leave. Direct pressure can be counterproductive and cause the person to defend the relationship. Instead, you can carefully offer information, such as recommending a podcast or a book. You can talk about your own experiences and ask if similar patterns are apparent. It is important to listen actively, validate feelings and express concern without pushing for a breakup. This can be challenging, especially if you keep hearing the same story without anything changing.

Have you ever experienced that a relationship with narcissistic traits can work? Or do you always recommend leaving?

For people on the receiving end of a narcissistic relationship, the solution is usually to leave at some point, which is usually seen as a great relief. There may be individual reasons why one does not leave or does not leave immediately, for example because of the children. If someone is afraid of being narcissistic themselves, there are therapeutic options. This self-reflection is a promising sign. Even with serious therapy, however, it is a long process with an uncertain outcome when it comes to a personality disorder. As a partner, you have to ask yourself whether you are prepared to stay in the current situation for so long.

Brigitte